Guernsey Butcher’s shop allowed where gifts were not

I am confused now

so very unfair ...they are buying meat in and making burgers and sausages...maybe they had a big brown envelope to hand over to the environment department x

great even more murder shops in guernsey as if we didnt have enough already! bring back griffins grotto!

No consistency its not even funny , Face fits and all that .

If they are making produce on the site, surely they then fall within the designated use for the site. As I understood it Griffins were not actually making anything.

griffins were going to start making items but even that didnt stop the noddy planners from forcing them out...maybe the butcher has a funny handshake

Maybe they took too long getting around to starting manufacture, or maybe they were just saying it to put the States off.



If the butchers are conforming to the terms of use for the site, why would they need a funny handshake ?

sorry kingcole but as you dont know the case and some of the quirky laws of the island how can you say the butchers are conforming to the rules

You said yourself that they will be manufacturing sausages and hamburgers. How is that differnent from producing bread, cakes or jumpers etc to sell on the site ?

kingcolemk wrote:You said yourself that they will be manufacturing sausages and hamburgers. How is that differnent from producing bread, cakes or jumpers etc to sell on the site ?

Agree with you KingCole.. Rock solid ground, other posters don't have an arguement that holds water. But there again conspiracy theories always do really well.

i also said that that griffins grotto were preparing to make things on site but that didnt satisfy the planners either.

Thistle how long had they been there?

not the point plimmerton..they had been there for several years without any interference from planners then suddenly they were told you cant have a retail shop here that doesnt make goods on site...very strange that the butchers is up and running after such a short time and planning given x

Thistle wrote:not the point plimmerton..they had been there for several years without any interference from planners then suddenly they were told you cant have a retail shop here that doesnt make goods on site...very strange that the butchers is up and running after such a short time and planning given x

It could be a point, questions that should be answered to make an informd decision are for instance, What was the original planning permission for, this is detail, manufacturing and sale or just sale? When did the last owners discover that it was manufacture and sale? What discussion took place between the two parties? There are lots of other questions that need to be answered, it is not really fair to take just one side of the story, that is from the previous owners, that side may be biased on their interpretation. I think there is more to this than we know and I am not alluding to a conspiracy to oust one party in favour of another that may or may not have an odd handshake because of a disability as has been alluded to.

the following is taken from this is guernsey your shout with permission of one the the family involved..hope this clarifys some of the negative posts on here

Griffins Grotto
| August 6, 2011 at 11:03 am

We have written in just to straighten a few facts about the whole situation.

Yes Griifins Grotto was a local family run business and had nothing to do with the previous gift shop on the site called the Gift Shack. We did only rent the original shop part of the building and a small part of the light industrial which was behind the shop and not the 2 light industrial units either side.

Yes we did produce some of our own products from wood carvings to jewelry.
We did also buy in chocolates and sweets from around Europe which we packaged ourselves into gift selections.

Yes crafts people had offered to produce products on site to keep Griffins Grotto alive.

Yes we did have the full support of the Douzaine and several thousand signatures on a petition which was started after public demand.

From the start of the problem’s we were assured verbally by the ED that there was nothing to worry about as it was only a formality but we would need to apply for a change of use which we did.
When we were told we would have to close we decided to produce many items on site such as Gold , silver and fashion jewellery, Greeting cards, Mug & T-shirt printing, Souvenir production. Wooden products. Flowers, bouquet’s. Along with many other things to stay within the rules.
We were told most of these things were crafts and gifts and there for were not classed as light industrial. Flowers could only be sold if grown on site. Wooden items they said would be ok but we would need to seek relevant permissions from health and safety.
The ED was also concerned that we would not produce enough products to be deemed light industrial. We said that would not be a problem as we would also be able to sell via our Internet site. They then told us we would need to apply to change part of the usage to storage and distribution this would take time and it was doubtful that it would be allowed.
Also they had told us we were not in a rural centre apparently you need a bank or a post office in to be deemed a rural centre.
It felt like we were being forced to get out. Not by the Landlords the Public the Visitors or even by some of the Deputies who supported us but by one small Department. Finally we had enough as every time we tryed to conform to the rules yet another block was put in our way. Plus some peoples health was beginning to suffer from all this.
We have nothing against the butchers that are now on the site. What we are angry about is we were told we could not sell our products from the site even though we were prepared to expand and produce them. Well the rest speaks for its self.

Read more: http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2011/08/05/butchers-shop-allowed-where-gifts-were-not/#ixzz1UjEi3kD7

Having read that through it does seem like they had a tough time. But it is clear that they decided to stop they were not asked to stop or kicked out which is the implication from several posts. Granted their decision was based on the difficulties they encountered with a department and at some time you do have to balance lifestyle with hassle.

There is also the issue of what is ight industrial. If they did not meet the definition that's the end of it.

Perhaps the butcher is prepared to weather the storm and plug away at the beaurocracy whereas Griffins were not.

plimmerton they were messed about so much by this committee of little hitlers they were left no choice but to give up..they kept on plugging away but got nowhere and in the end enough was enough.

When we were told we would have to close we decided to produce many items on site such as Gold , silver and fashion jewellery, Greeting cards, Mug & T-shirt printing, Souvenir production. Wooden products. Flowers, bouquet’s. Along with many other things to stay within the rules.
We were told most of these things were crafts and gifts and there for were not classed as light industrial. Flowers could only be sold if grown on site. Wooden items they said would be ok but we would need to seek relevant permissions from health and safety.[b]


please re read this paragraph plimmerton

Thistle wrote:plimmerton they were messed about so much by this committee of little hitlers they were left no choice but to give up..they kept on plugging away but got nowhere and in the end enough was enough.

I appreciate that, but whose decision was it to quit. They were not asked to leave which is the imprerssion given by several posts.



Since when does making someone abide by the rules make the enforcer a little Hitler. I would suggest that the department has been incompetant and given poor advise and gone on to manage the affair in an inadequate manner.

Thistle wrote:When we were told we would have to close we decided to produce many items on site such as Gold , silver and fashion jewellery, Greeting cards, Mug & T-shirt printing, Souvenir production. Wooden products. Flowers, bouquet’s. Along with many other things to stay within the rules.
We were told most of these things were crafts and gifts and there for were not classed as light industrial. Flowers could only be sold if grown on site. Wooden items they said would be ok but we would need to seek relevant permissions from health and safety.[b]


please re read this paragraph plimmerton

The above came online before I posted my last, suggest this is also read which is contradictory to above. I'll even put it in red big and bold for you because that seems to mean something!!



Finally we had enough as every time we tryed to conform to the rules yet another block was put in our way. Plus some peoples health was beginning to suffer from all this.




That intimates that they chose to close after they had started to apply the requirements. Your para suggests that they were told to close because they were not a light industry, not that they were told to get out. As long as they followed the rules they could stay.

it only suggests that the waterman family decided that the ED had put every obstacle in their way and that they had tried to do everything to conform but ED would never be satisfied by what they were doing..they had been beaten into the ground at every turn by these jobsworths. i wish the waterman family much success in the future in whatever they try to do ...its time the members of the ED were told you are the weakest link goodbye