Year 12 Grammar School Sixth Form students said they were in favour of having a comprehensive education

AN OVERWHELMING number of Year 12 Grammar School Sixth Form students said they were in favour of having a comprehensive education system

The year group was split in half for the meetings and the first group voted almost 80% in favour of scrapping the 11-plus. The second group was split down the middle on the issue.

Question for the candidates is do you agree with the pupils and get the 11 plus scrapped?

And should the Island consider its own university?

Yes and Yes

Yes and very unlikely!

The idea of local uni is appealing but unrealistic.

We could explore a partnership arrangement with a UK uni - as the Nurses have to achieve their registration.

Education has so much to be getting on with for the next 12 months, overlaying the abolition of 11+ might just be a step too far! However, before we go around the 11+/comprehensive debate one more time, I would prefer that we take the opportunity to just pause and instead ask ourselves the following questions: what education system do we need to meet the needs of our children, island and economy in the 21st century? Is there anything we can learn from other non-UK education systems?

A University is a great idea - perhaps using shared resources/courses with Jersey, but I do not have enough experience to know how practical this is given our student population size etc. I would also be interested to learn more about the GTA's University Centre relationship with Bournmouth University, how this works in practice and how this is expected to develop in the years ahead.

gavinstpier wrote:Education has so much to be getting on with for the next 12 months, overlaying the abolition of 11+ might just be a step too far! However, before we go around the 11+/comprehensive debate one more time, I would prefer that we take the opportunity to just pause and instead ask ourselves the following questions: what education system do we need to meet the needs of our children, island and economy in the 21st century? Is there anything we can learn from other non-UK education systems?

A University is a great idea - perhaps using shared resources/courses with Jersey, but I do not have enough experience to know how practical this is given our student population size etc. I would also be interested to learn more about the GTA's University Centre relationship with Bournmouth University, how this works in practice and how this is expected to develop in the years ahead.

What you can learn from the UK system is that the abolition of the 11+ and going comprehensive was a complete disaster which has left us with large numbers of almost illiterate, unemployable young people.

Don't be fooled by the apparent year on year improvement in GCSE passes. These are manipulated by lowering the pass mark standards. Many firms find they have to educate new recruits in basic grammer and numistics before they become capable of doing a descent job.

As for disipline...................just don't get me started on that !

It is not very surprising that students at the Grammar VI Form Centre should vote for a comprehensive system as probably around 50% or more have come post GCSE from secondary schools only to be reunited with the friends they were separated from 5 years earlier as the result of a warped selection system. I agree with them.

A Channel Islands University is not beyond the ken of man, it would need to start small and use existing links, e.g. becoming an 'externally validated college' of a UK University perhaps, building on the GTA University Centre model with Bournemouth and the York model as Sandra suggests which is serving nurses well. The key to building credibility and growth would be to allow such an establishment to take on 'overseas students' and grow, for example, a bespoke finance, economics & business speciality. It would need careful funding but I believe it could eventually be a significant economic contributor through support service income streams, as well as enhancing communication links. Nothing ventured...

As the oldest of six children who took the 11+ between 1962 and 1972 that exam’s accuracy in determining suitability for post-16 academic education and the psychological effect of ‘passing’ or ‘failing’ are issues I have been aware of for almost fifty years.
The 11+ was purported to be able to distinguish between those who will benefit from a post-16 academic education and those who will not. Despite all the evidence that it does not work, with over 50% of the students in the Grammar School Sixth Form coming from the High Schools, it is still defended. The defence grows ever more strained, in particular the original purpose of the 11+ is underplayed. It is more common today to hear that separation at eleven ‘allows pupils to develop at different speeds’. As someone who attended Elizabeth College, which catered for a very wide range of abilities through streaming and setting, I believe that is no argument at all.

Streaming was originally frowned on under comprehensionism, but had to be quietly introduced to rescue brighter harder working pupils from the 'lowest common denominator' trap they were caught in.

Not sure any schools "stream" any more. Most of them "set" by subject which is avery different thing indeed.

Yes I agree with it eventually but I think we need to implement all the other changes first before we look at that.

I can't see that a university would be feasible given the size of our population. Education are working with Brighton University and have introduced a Graduate Teacher Programme this last year, so we can train our own teachers over here now. They have also introduced courses for teaching assistants - maybe we need more programmes like that for other careers.

You are correct about economies of scale, but I'm also talking about educational 'tourism' i.e. having students visit, study and pay for the privilege over a 2, 3, 4 year period, maybe longer. Existing links with Bournemouth (through GTA) Brighton and York as has already been mentioned could be built upon, but essentially specialisation in finance, business, maybe also marine and alternative energy, medicine/surgery, could be investigated. It would mean issuing visas and student licensing and providing suitable accommodation, but there are loads of Asian students for example who are looking for this in Europe at the moment. A large proportion of Australia's economy is based on this type of Education income stream from foreign students.

Yes without a doubt. I would expect that the vast majority of the teaching profession would also agree.
We could examine the possibility of a joint investment with a U.K university for an outreach base specialising in such courses as Marine sciences and financial services. The idea should be seriously considered and discussed with the Universities that already have island links.

[quote="letocq"
A large proportion of Australia's economy is based on this type of Education income stream from foreign students.[/quote]

Downturn could be worse than $3.3bn
BY: JOHN ROSS From: The Australian March 16, 2012 12:00AM

THE $3.3 billion crash in international education revenue last year could be an underestimate, because official figures don't take account of people not on student visas.

RMIT University policy analyst Gavin Moodie said the revenue figure, compiled by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, ignored the 40 per cent or so of English language students on visitor, working holiday and other types of visas.

Also it is common knowledge that many of these 'students' disappear as soon as they are able and slip through the visa net

Relying on foreign students and 'educational tourism' for revenue would certainly be unwise; I was not suggesting that. Relying totally on the current scope of our finance sector is also unwise. However in terms of diversification of our economy and providing future on-island tertiary choices for our children I believe it is an idea worthy of serious investigation.