GST to be taken off food?

by GD Wed 20 Aug 2008, 2:49 pm

SPECULATION is mounting that GST on food will be scrapped.

The Council of Ministers meet on Thursday to discuss their response to huge rises in food and fuel costs.

It is widely expected that their response will be to drop GST on food and to freeze duty on petrol in the coming Budget.

The three per cent GST was levied in May, but since then the rise in prices has hit Islanders hard.

The rise in fuel and light prices over the last 12 months has been 26%, and food costs have risen 13% in the same period.

Whatever ministers decide at their meeting on Thursday, the States are due to debate propositions on GST exemptions at their next sitting on Monday 8 September. (from thisisjersey)

Ok take if off the food, so where are they going to make it back up.... take GST up to 4% on other products?

by Troy McClure Thu 21 Aug 2008, 8:21 am

They already said they won't raise the rate in the first 3years, so to make it up elsewhere would be a stupid thing to do knowing the backlash it would cause.

I think taking it off food now would be a mistake, it would confuse an issue which many people still haven't grasped.

Fuel prices, while still higher than a year ago have begun to drop again and settle down, I know that a litre of diesel fuel has dropped by 13p in the last couple of weeks.

I want to see savings in government spending, and more work to grow the economy before they start messing further with the tax system.

by Pegasus Thu 21 Aug 2008, 11:24 am

Troy McClure wrote:
I want to see savings in government spending, and more work to grow the economy before they start messing further with the tax system.

Good Dream Troy, but it will never happen now that GST is in, it will make an easy way to cover any excess States Spending

by Troy McClure Thu 21 Aug 2008, 1:26 pm

Pegasus wrote:...Good Dream Troy, but it will never happen now that GST is in, it will make an easy way to cover any excess States Spending

Even more reason not to mess with a simple system then; keep it simple and transparent and there'll be less opportunity to hide anything behind it.

by Pete Burtenshaw Thu 21 Aug 2008, 5:02 pm

Troy, I agree with your reasoning keeping things simple and transparent is the ideal but gov do not do simple and transparent. GST is here to stay and do you really think the Gov give a toss about public opinion. Were there not hundreds who turned out to protest against the implementation of GST in Jsy did this protest stop GST no it did not, but well-done those who had the guts to protest. To achieve growth with a recession looming is very difficult and the recession will come. Jsy like Gsy (when we introduce GST in 2009/2010) needs GST to claw back the millions given away to the finance sector. Equally governments must not get complacent and think that oil will drop below $100 a barrel the days of oil being $26 a barrel are gone. I would be very surprised if in the next 5 years we see oil drop below $100. Times will be tough for us in the islands and the rich will get richer and the middle to low earners will get poorer.

by GD Fri 22 Aug 2008, 1:39 pm

GST on food in Jersey is to be scrapped.

The Chief Minister, Senator Frank Walker, made the announcement this morning.

It followed an emergency Council of Ministers meeting yesterday.

Global economic conditions have seen food and fuel prices rise at an unprecedented rate and that's had a big impact on the cost of everyday goods.

GST was introduced in May and the levying of the three per cent tax on food was opposed by a number of States members.

But the Chief Minister denied this morning's announcement amounted to a climbdown.

Senator Frank Walker told Channel Online: "This is a positive and appropriate reaction to absolutely unprecedented increases in food and fuel costs.

"It's no climbdown at all, the decision to keep GST at the lowest possible level and as simple as possible, as endorsed by the States on more than one occasion, was the right one at the time, but what we've done, while other governments talk about the increases in food and fuel costs that are international, they don't just apply to Jersey, we've reacted.

"We've said that people in Jersey are suffering much higher food bills and fuel costs than anyone could have anticipated and we need to help out and that's exactly what we're doing." (from CIonline)

GST off fuel bills soon?

by Troy McClure Fri 22 Aug 2008, 6:12 pm

It'll be interesting to see how the public perceive these changes; I'm sure they'll be lots of 'I told you sos', and very little 'thanks for listening'. I wonder how long before the complaints of how complicated the new tax system is start?

From a personal POV they just made life more expensive for me :x

Pete Burtenshaw wrote:...Were there not hundreds who turned out to protest against the implementation of GST in Jsy did this protest stop GST no it did not...

Were they offering any practical alternative? were their arguments sound? Not from what I heard and saw.

Nobody wanted a new tax, but GST was the best of what was available. It's a fair and simple tax, or at least it was until they started meddling with it :roll:

by GD Thu 04 Sep 2008, 8:06 pm

TRANSPORT Minister Guy de Faye turned on his ministerial colleagues for their ‘spineless’ U-turn on GST exemptions at a Chamber of Commerce meeting last night.

When the panel of States Members were asked about their stance on GST exemptions on food, the Deputy launched a furious attack on his colleagues for their U-turn.

‘It absolutely astonishes me that six months down the road, at the first whiff of gunsmoke and the first sign of panic, that I suddenly find that I’m a member of the Italian army,’ said the St Helier No 3 Deputy.

‘I am disgraced and appalled.

‘It is a disgraceful U-turn by the Council of Ministers. We are supposed to be standing up for States policy and showing some leadership (from thisisjersey)

by Troy McClure Fri 05 Sep 2008, 12:56 am

Good lord! I find myself agreeing with Dep. du Faye!!

They really have pandered to the vocal mob, without thinking about the consequences it seems.

These exemptions are a mistake.

by Pete Burtenshaw Fri 05 Sep 2008, 6:15 am

people power..........

by Thistle Fri 05 Sep 2008, 8:40 am

i agree pete.of course your gst is fairly low for this year but that is before you bring in 0/10.how much more will it be next year.i just hope guernsey never goes down that route.

by Troy McClure Fri 05 Sep 2008, 8:42 am

Pete Burtenshaw wrote:people power..........

With great power, comes great responsibility.

Shame that this will probably not mean any real savings for the consumer, but will mean less tax income for re-distribution to those in real need.

by Troy McClure Fri 05 Sep 2008, 8:46 am

Thistle wrote:i agree pete.of course your gst is fairly low for this year but that is before you bring in 0/10.how much more will it be next year.i just hope guernsey never goes down that route.

The States committed not to raise the 3% rate within the first three years I believe Once that date is reached everybody expects it to rise, and now that they've messed with the system already they'll use these exemptions to justify a general rate rise.

If they end up raising and lowering the rat on a whim like this they're going to end up making businesses (except the finance businesses who are exempt of course) unmanageable, or at least uneconomical to manage.

by Spirit Fri 05 Sep 2008, 5:57 pm

won't be long before it mirrors the UK and is on 17.5%

by Pete Burtenshaw Fri 05 Sep 2008, 6:04 pm

Troy McClure wrote:
Thistle wrote:i agree pete.of course your gst is fairly low for this year but that is before you bring in 0/10.how much more will it be next year.i just hope guernsey never goes down that route.
The States committed not to raise the 3% rate within the first three years I believe Once that date is reached everybody expects it to rise, and now that they've messed with the system already they'll use these exemptions to justify a general rate rise.

If they end up raising and lowering the rat on a whim like this they're going to end up making businesses (except the finance businesses who are exempt of course) unmanageable, or at least uneconomical to manage.

Good God, I find myself agreeing with Troy McClure..........

by Pete Burtenshaw Fri 05 Sep 2008, 6:05 pm

Troy McClure wrote:
Pete Burtenshaw wrote:people power..........
With great power, comes great responsibility.

Shame that this will probably not mean any real savings for the consumer, but will mean less tax income for re-distribution to those in real need.

Good points Troy McClure...............

by Troy McClure Fri 12 Sep 2008, 6:05 pm

Who'd have thunk it?!

They actually made the right decision, even if it was perilously close.

I didn't hear all the speeches, but I thought Dep. de Faye's was good, Dep. Le Clair's was terrible in more than one way, and the Dean's was hypocritical and shouldn't be getting heard in the House anyway.

by GD Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:29 pm

THE GST exemption vote finished in a dead heat in the States this morning - meaning that the 3% tax will remain on food for now. The proposition to exempt fuel was also defeated.

Members voted 25 to 25 on Deputy Carolyn Labey’s proposition, and under States rules it was rejected. The debate had spanned three days, with allegations of electioneering and U-turns flying around the Chamber.

Some of those who spoke in support of the proposal have promised to bring it back after the elections over the coming months.

The debate prompted some strange alliances – the unlikely combination of Chief Minister Frank Walker, Senator Stuart Syvret, the Dean, the Very Rev Bob Key, and Deputy Geoff Southern all speaking in support of the proposal yesterday. There was a mini-rebellion from the ministers – despite the U-turn, Transport Minister Guy de Faye, Housing Minister Terry Le Main and Economic Development Minister Philip Ozouf all said that they would vote against the food exemption.

Deputy Labey’s proposition would have removed £4.8m from GST takings by exempting food – in line with UK arrangements – and domestic fuel. On Wednesday the States rejected a series of amendments which would have extended the exemptions to all food, all fuel, water, books, magazines, newspapers and school uniforms.from thisisjersey)

It will be back to the States after the elections...

by Troy McClure Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:37 pm

GD wrote:...It will be back to the States after the elections...

Yeah, it probably will; but that'll just show what a useless bunch they are, unable to stand by their own decisions long enough to see what works and what doesn't.

You can't bring in a tax (a fair tax at that) and then meddle with it so soon.

GST's fair as it is, leave it run until year three and then judge it then. At that point adjust the rate, but don't make it any more complicated.

by Digger Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:54 pm

I don't know how anyone can say that GST is fair , it might be if you have s**t loads of money where it really doesn't matter how much things cost but to the less well off it might be the difference between eating properly or not.

by Troy McClure Sat 13 Sep 2008, 1:43 am

Digger wrote:I don't know how anyone can say that GST is fair , it might be if you have s**t loads of money where it really doesn't matter how much things cost but to the less well off it might be the difference between eating properly or not.

GST is a consumption tax, those that consume are taxed equally to others and in proportion to what they consume. The taxes raised are then redistributed as general tax income, which includes subsidising the less well off through Income Support (many feel Income Support does not adequately subsidise those in need, but that is a problem of Income Support, NOT GST)

The alternative is what, higher income tax? How is that any fairer?

by GD Sat 13 Sep 2008, 4:36 pm

Although Jersey politicians have effectively voted to keep tax on food and domestic heating, the battle to remove GST from foodstuffs is not over.

Three Senators - Ben Shenton, Freddie Cohen and Jimmy Perchard - are setting their sights on having the tax removed from healthy food. Senator Cohen says islanders can expect a fresh debate soon.

Meanwhile, Chief Minister Frank Walker hopes that next week politicians will back Deputy John Le Fondre's call to give back some GST income to poor people through income tax relief and government benefit handouts. (from CIonline)

Well surprise surprise

by Thistle Sun 14 Sep 2008, 8:03 am

GST was only brought in to fill the black hole made by the government bringing in 0/10. the governments on both islands cocked up .robin hood in reverse take from the least well off to give to big business and the rich

by Troy McClure Mon 15 Sep 2008, 10:16 am

GD wrote:
...Deputy John Le Fondre's call to give back some GST income to poor people through income tax relief and government benefit handouts. (from CIonline)

Well surprise surprise

Lucky for those already on benefits then :roll:

Thistle wrote:GST was only brought in to fill the black hole made by the government bringing in 0/10. the governments on both islands cocked up .robin hood in reverse take from the least well off to give to big business and the rich

What would you suggest as available alternative to GST? You seem to think that 'big business' and 'the rich' are getting an unfair advantage, how so?

What am I missing that all you who bemoan GST as unfair can see? do you believe that people shouldn't have to pay their way so long as there's somebody who's rich enough that they can be fleeced to pay for all the services everybody benefits from?

by Thistle Mon 15 Sep 2008, 7:59 pm

big business is no longer paying its way.they are using the services and paying nothing towards them imo.why should the finance industry no longer pay tax on profits is that fair on the ordinary working people of both islands imo no it is not.i am assuming that you either work in finance or are one of the idle rich who won't miss the extra you have to pay or one of the businesses who will benefit most from 0/10.maybe you should try and live on an ordinary wage in these islands and see if you can manage to feed your family,heat your home,pay your rent/mortgage and pay your bills just to keep your head above water. then tell me that gst etc is fair .

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